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Amanda Kramer: Welcome to the��Leeds Business Insights Podcast, featuring expert analysis to help you stand out from the herd. My name is Amanda Kramer.��Today, join me as I speak with Sabrina Volpone, a recognized expert in workplace diversity, who developed keen insights about what DEI looks like at the individual level and how that influences the success of teams. It's been said that diversity is being invited to the party while inclusion is being asked to dance.��As companies grapple with how to ensure their workplaces represent people of all genders and ethnic backgrounds. They're under just as much pressure to create environments where every employee feels valued and��important. Ensuring they're capable of speaking up when they see problems and knowing their solutions will be valued at the��table. Creating that sort of environment goes beyond taking a��high-level look at departments and teams and really speaks to how well individuals are represented at work. Welcome, Sabrina. And thank you so much for being here with us today.

Sabrina Volpone: Thank you for having me. This is such a��wonderful opportunity, and I'm excited to talk about my work.

Kramer: Wonderful.��Let's dive right in.��So, we've all heard a lot about the role diversity plays in creating successful, high-performing teams, but you only get so far if professionals on those teams don't feel included, or that their views don't have a seat at the table. Your research largely centers around individual employees’ lived experiences with diverse identities and then inclusion within an organization. So, tell us, based on your research, how can companies encourage cultures that ensure each voice is valid and heard?

Volpone: It's really hard to be validated and heard if you don't have that psychological safety that it's okay to speak up and give that opinion. And��so, we know from my research and��others' research that to have a voice that is heard and validated in the workplace, that representation can be a big part of that. And��so, we know, for example, that in the current Fortune 500, when we look at the number of CEOs that are female, we only have about 6.6%.��Or 33 of those 500 companies are led by women CEOs.��When��representation is not there, it sends a very strong signal, especially when that representation is not at top leadership levels. Even��less,��three point two percent of senior leadership roles at large corporations are held by black individuals.��That's just��mind-boggling–��the low number. And if you look at it from a slightly different lens, roughly 85% of corporate executives and board members are white men. So, when you are bringing perhaps a different perspective or a different lens to the organization, whether it's a meeting in your department or a committee that you're on, it can be very hard to present your voice and to truly be heard, and validated, and acted upon. Especially when it often comes across a dissenting opinion��because the representation of people that look like you or think like you, or have the lens that you do is so small.��

Unfortunately, you get in this rut of low representation leads to less inclusive efforts. And that's how those two things can really interact together, to kind of reinforce each other in a��negative way. But we do have some examples of how those things can reinforce each other��in a positive way, through some of my recent research that I'll share now. When teams are working together, and they're more diverse, and in this particular research, we're looking at gender diversity.��So, when teams are more��gender-balanced, we see that women on the team can bring their voice to the team more, it enhances team performance. But the mechanism by which that relationship unfolds is through a process we��call boundary spanning.��

Kramer:��This concept of boundary��spanning is really cutting edge. Can you tell us more about boundary��spanning?

Volpone:��That's��an interesting term, and I'll describe it in more detail, but when you have more voices, working on the team and working together and presenting ideas, you not only get that positive impact to get the work done with more ideas, more��problem-solving, more individual, types of decision-making going into the��problem-solving. But what we also found happens, is that individuals on the teams, when they're more gender diverse,��tend to engage in boundary-spanning behaviors more. So that actually means spanning the boundaries of the team.��Going outside the team and utilizing those networks, which��will be theoretically more diverse because you have more women, more men. Those networks are going to look different. And��so, you have even more resources outside the team that these individuals on the team can span, bring back more information and resources for the team to do their job effectively. And that enhances the team performance even more.��And so, we’re��seeing just so many positive impacts of not just having increased levels of diversity. But when��those voices feel like they can be heard and contribute and are��valued, when there's that inclusive��climate, which we measure in test in this study as well. When both of those are there in the environment for the team,��that's when the boundary-spanning and the really good performance unfolds.��

Kramer: We're talking about ensuring that we have diversity at the��table, and then ensuring that we also have this inclusion��to leverage the diversity that we have.��And you've referenced that this can lead to boundary-spanning. But it seems like the environment has to be set up in a certain way so that this��boundary-spanning can take place and be facilitated. Are there certain steps that organizations can take to facilitate an environment where this��boundary-spanning can take place?��

Volpone:��So, a lot of my research addresses that through an umbrella term that I like to call and that the field refers to as diversity climate.��When you walk into a space, and you naturally pick up on��queues as a human being processing millions of pieces of information about your environment. Every��minute, you pick up on��queues. “Do I feel comfortable here? Is there psychological safety? Is there anyone that��who looks like me?” That can definitely increase my level of acceptance and belongingness at that very moment, in that workplace or in that work environment. And��so, when organizations really pour time and effort, to strengthen their diversity climate, that's where a lot of their efforts and policies and procedures, where they're captured��in really great employee outcomes. Increased engagement across demographic groups and things like that.��So, what does diversity climate look like? Well, first of all, are there other people that look like me? Okay. That's basic diversity. We know we need more representation. We know that for decades, we’ve known that tokenism or only having one or two of this group or that group just doesn’t provide that psychological safety. Or, that environment for voices to be taken seriously, which is all part of inclusion.��There's more to that, though.��It's also about how that diversity is distributed. It's not completely uncommon for organizations if you look at their general numbers, to have maybe a large representation of diverse employees. And, of course, diversity can refer to any characteristic, whether it's gender, race, sexual orientation, or age. I'm not speaking to one in particular. And that a lot of times, you see that diversity might be at lower levels of job status or��lower-levels jobs in the organization. And that's not really something that enhances inclusion or enhances really that diversity climate of people feeling like they belong. As soon as you receive those signals,��“Oh, I'm looking at the website and pictures of the��C-suite. And, I'm seeing people that look like me or people that at least might have had some of my��minority-related experiences in America or here in the south.” Or, you know, whatever context you're approaching that with. That is when inclusion, that diversity climate, is really a lot stronger.��

How do you get that strong diversity climate? And it's enhancing that in a way where it's lived, and breathed, and practiced throughout the organization rather than just existing in a policy and procedure document. Or it's not just symbolic words on a page. Some of my other research that looks at diversity and inclusion together focuses on what definitions do organizations��use to actually define diversity? And we find that a lot of organizations, the ones that we��studied, don't define diversity.��And if they do, they certainly don't make that public on a website or to their stakeholders. Which include applicants that might be applying, stakeholders that might be investing, things like that. And I come from the viewpoint that's a big mistake.��

If you really think practically, what does that look like?��Maybe a group of�� C-suite executives pass on the information that there are incentives. It is a strategic goal to increase diversity.����It's very possible and probable that when manager that hears that, interprets it��different way.�� Everyone might be working really hard towards a goal, but if you haven't even defined what that is and what you're looking for and trying to��achieve, everyone interprets it in their own way. And sometimes, it isn't exactly what the organization has envisioned for increasing diversity. “What are you talking about? The three people I hired are blonde, and I have black hair”.�� I know that's a silly example, but it kind of illustrates that we need to put some basicmanagement principles into place. Goal-setting theory defining what we're trying to achieve in implementing these new policies and procedures.��Because good intentions and just��having a bit of an awakening about how organizations need to be involved in social justice conversations now, it's not going to improve. It's not going to get better unless we implement these management practices that go beyond diversity. Use inclusion to leverage that diversity, to get those positive outcomes, and do it in a strategic way that we know organizations have the knowledge and the know-how to put those strategic initiatives in place.����

Kramer: We're talking about this intersection of diversity and inclusion and some of these management principles that need to be implemented from a strategic perspective��to ensure that diversity and inclusion are working together. So, you mentioned you're not necessarily seeing this happen at the��Fortune 500 companies. Are there other lessons that you gleaned from your research, either great examples of management principles taking place or areas of opportunity that you could share with us?

Volpone: So I want to switch tracks a little bit, even though the focus of our question or conversation hasn’t changed, but I've been talking a lot about gender. I've been talking a lot about race. I actually want to give some examples as I answer this next question about my research that focuses on different types of diversity. And to answer your question about what have I seen from the��Top��Fortune 500 organizations doing to really ensure and enhance��an inclusive culture, I would love to��give the example from my research on��neurodiversity.��There’s a number of organizations that are emulating how to build an inclusive climate through their increased understanding of how to set up their organizations in a way��that is really inclusive and embracing of neurodiverse individuals. And just to step back for a minute, what I mean by��neurodiversity, that might be a new term for some people. For a lot of people, this would be incorrect, but a lot of people use that term interchangeably with the word autism or something like that.��

Certainly, the research on autism certainly informs neurodiversity in what we know about��neurodiverse employees. But neurodiversity really covers neuro minorities. Really cover groups of individuals who are neurodivergent.��So, their brains are structured differently; they work differently. And, if you really think about the point of diversity to bring new and different lenses, to solving problems, to creating more opportunities to connect with customers, things like that. There is such an opportunity to do a better job of structuring our organizations in a way that��are inclusive. Just to give some specific examples,��Ernst and Young has a neurodiversity center of excellence.��They started that in 2015, so they were certainly one of the first companies that made a case study. And people were talking about their initiatives in this area.��There are others that have autism at work programs and things like that. So, this is a type of diversity that��has certainly, been gaining��more and more discussion in workplaces. And so I really see a lot of opportunities moving forward to emulate some of these programs from these Fortune 500 and other organizations that are doing really��the cutting-edge things to enhance their culture. Not just for traditional types of diversity that we think about.����Maybe sex, maybe, race, but other types of��diversities. A lot of organizations haven't even really started assessing their HR policies and��practicing to see if that can be embraced and incorporated into their organization. And��so, we’re really missing out on opportunities to include individuals that can bring a lot to the organization. Some��with really specialized skills, great attitudes.��

Kramer:�� It loops back to the earlier point that you made about the importance of a company defining what diversity means to them as an initial step.��What we would really love to hear from you, as I think, leaders across the board have shared the challenges they face leading teams in this newer, remote, or hybrid environment that we're facing that's got to be a challenge.��When it comes to maintaining inclusivity, whether that's for existing team members or new hires who are trying to integrate themselves into the culture.��So, do you have data on how these ideas or models are being maintained in virtual or hybrid environments?

Volpone: I do. That is something I was very interested in from the early days of the pandemic, and virtual learningand virtual work. And we have not published this data yet. We have just collected it, but I'll give you��insight into what that looks like. We actually looked at the experiences of individuals with non-visible minority identities.��So, you can think of sexual orientation, for example– disabilities. And we thought to ourselves,��“We know how important from our work and a lot of other work, how important the identity,��I.e., management processes.” And so, a lot of times, that, for example, includes disclosure. I get hired at an organization. I meet my teammates. I decide to disclose that I'm gay or that I have a learning disability.��I start, maybe, and some people choose not to. But a lot of times at that point, meeting, trusting, developing these good relationships with your team or your group can lead to disclosure of non-visible identities that may be marginalized or stigmatized. And what's interesting is the question we��posed through our research was: Is that process still happening over zoom?��Is trust as deep as it is when you're in person?��Do you say,��“Hey, let's schedule a��Zoom meeting and then, like, disclose something?” There are some elements that might be a little less awkward if��it's part of a natural conversation in a break room when you're eating lunch or on the way to a client to set up a��Zoom call. And then there's just not as much getting to know each other. And, in a lot of cases, not as much��chit-chat and things like that. That got reduced a lot in this virtual environment.��And so we did the study that looked at kind of identity management processes, specifically disclosure. What are people's experiences with��disclosure in a zoom environment during a lockdown? And virtual, hybrid, remote learning.��And we see differences in people and different groups. We have some more analysis to run things like that. But for the most part, what we see is that people did engage in this disclosure process and this identity management tactics, but a lot of times, they waited until their workplace went back to being in person. That brings up another kind of interesting way to look at this. There was an added element to the disclosure. Because now you might have known these work colleagues via zoom or teams or whatever platform you're using. But, virtually, you've known them for a year, 18 months, two years. And now you're disclosing like this salient identity that's very important to you. That you could call that awkward. It's like,��“I didn't want to wait this long to disclose, but the situation wasn't right.” And even on the other side, I don't want to use the word backlash, but like,��“We've known each other for two years. You've never told me this.” And��so,we’re seeing some more nuance. Parts of the identity management process that have changed in this kind of virtual hybrid environment. I also want to give another example for people that think about��and, this is not my research, but this is some of the research coming out. On one hand, we're finding a lot of minority populations are reporting better working conditions because they're experiencing less microaggressions and things like that. And then, we're also seeing reports and research saying that individuals with disabilities are being hired more and given a lot more opportunities.��Because organizations have figured out how to adapt their jobs or tasks or how they're doing business in a way that is inclusive of individuals with disabilities.

Kramer: That's so interesting. These examples really highlight how it takes a concerted effort for organizations to get it right for their organization, depending on how their company is structured in a variety of ways.��

Volpone: I think it also highlights that it's not a side conversation.��Like maybe some organizations have gotten by with that mentality in the past.��“I had a paragraph on my website”. Or, “You know this is on page 67 of the handbook, or it's everywhere.”��It’s not going away.��It's time to figure it out, and it's only going to benefit you if you know you're doing it right. You're managing��correctly, and a lot of opportunities to get to benefit organizations. And soI'm excited about the research coming out now. And even if it looks a little different��from we thought it would, a lot of the research being about virtual and hybrid organizations and what diversity and inclusion��looks like in those, I'm just so excited to see the research that's coming out now. I think��there are a lot of opportunities for organizations to incorporate some of the unexpected changes that happened during the pandemic to make their organizations better.��

Kramer: Absolutely. This seems like a good time to home in on our��LBIdea. I think our main takeaway here is that we all have a role in making our workplaces more inclusive. What's your advice for people who aren't in leadership or management positions who want to contribute to a more inclusive environment?

Volpone: I think something that is really relevant to the times we're in today has to do with some of the research that shows a number of marginalized individuals. Those with stigmatized identities and those that may not identify as a white heterosexual, able-bodied man, having some of those privileges that come along with dominant identity statuses. What we're seeing from those marginalized individuals is that they're reporting—not being in the workplace and��going to work via��Zoom and working remotely.��If they've been in a job or a position where, you know, that has been available to them, we are seeing reports that marginalized��individuals have benefited in a number of ways from that networking environment because��there are less microaggressions that they're experiencing through their daily interactions with colleagues.��So, what I would suggest if you're not necessarily in a manager or leadership position is; when we do get back to an environment maybe that has less people working remotely, keep that in mind. Especially as someone who does have privileges belonging to��some of majority group identities, educate yourself on what is microaggression. The information is accessible and can just have such a huge impact. Through subtle changes in behavior. Just a recognition of how your behavior or��others’ behavior might really impact the culture or environment for someone else.

Kramer:��A lot of solutions that we have discussed today are top-down, you know?��They start with leadership and management. But do you believe that at the more grassroots level, we can make a change and make an impact?��

Volpone: Yeah. Another suggestion I have is, along with having��our��self-reflection and insights, and changing��our behavior, no matter what level we're at. We started this podcast really talking about the under-representation of women, racial minorities, and other marginalized individuals in leadership positions that can absolutely make a change in that situation. It can absolutely start at the grassroots level. Promotions from,��maybe, starting position to a mid-level manager.��Promotions are happening at every level. The pipeline to those leadership positions—It's not like someone starts with the organization and they jumped to CEO the next day. Certainly, that might be the case if they've established themselves in an industry or other organization. But��there’s a lot of examples of people working their way up to��top leadership positions. And if we eliminate at the grassroots level,��then the mid-level manager, that pipeline, if we eliminate bias and retrain ourselves and have a new norm for what do leaders look like?They are every color of the rainbow. They are black, brown, tan, beige, just different colors in every way. And, of course, when I say rainbow, I'm alluding to maybe sexual orientation, and there's just so many differences that are not consistent with what the norm is. What we think of when we think of a leader, and that has to change because it's just not true.��And so, if organizations really want to be effective and have the best leadership, get all those great outcomes related to productivity and bottom line, and just have a great culture where employees want to work. It's really tying from the grassroots level upwards to be able to conceptualize leaders differently. So, we have different styles and��different approaches to leadership that we know are effective for the organization and the employees really being more part of the norm than��they are currently.

Kramer: That's great. Well, thank you so much, Sabrina, for joining us today. We really appreciate your insights.��

Volpone: Thank you so much for having me. This has been a great time.

Kramer: Thank you again for listening to��Leeds Business Insights, and a special thank you to my guest, Sabrina��Volpone. Make sure you don't miss a single episode. Subscribe to��Leeds Business Insights wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.